Proposed rule changes for next universe restart

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(Seyhall @ Jul , 08:00 PM)Aw, man, come on... The fact is that this game requires good timing. You have to coordinate your ship movements well. That's one of the fun parts of the game. As you've noticed, you can't just fleetsave for some arbitrary amount of time. You have to find a planet and a speed setting that works out to the x number of hours you will be away. And you have to return to meet your fleet on time. I've lost a few cargoships that way, too, but I'm not complaining. It's nobody's fault I can't schedule myself better.

What is it that you want? That no one attack you at all? But the game is PvP! How can they change that? Even if they lowered the attack range, would you be happier if someone still attacked you and destroyed your ships?

This is not a casual game. It's like complaining that American football is too rough.

There is a certain amount of truth in what you say; this is a rough game, and it is PvP, and no, I would not be happy to log on and find somebody had destroyed all my ships, no matter how many points they have when they do it.

HOWEVER.

In OTHER PVP games, you can either CHOOSE whether or not you will be attacked, or you can put yourself into "safe" mode when you are not online. You can't do that here; you can only run away and hide, and hope that you can be at your computer when your ships come back.

You find fleetsaves fun? How nice for you. I don't. I find them a thing that places heavy limits on when and how I can play. The necessity of fleetsaves and the inability for lower level players to defend themselves are big parts of why so many people quit this game at or before about rank 5000 or so; they figure out that no matter what they do, there will always be a much more powerful player pounding on them.....or, they will have to be able to schedule a time slot every day that they can get to their computer so that they can save their fleet and resources by hiding them. For most players, that's just too much bullshit to deal with, so they leave.

And as far as American Football being too rough.....considering just how many ex-NFL players end up with brain damage and other debilitating permanent injuries, you might have a point there, too. The relationship between repeated concussion and suicidal depression is real.

[Seyhall]

You are right -- there are different design approaches to PvP. In some games, you have to choose to play PvP; in other games, it's PvP only in certain areas. In some games, you disappear from the universe when you log off, so you can't be PKed while offline. And in some games, it's a free for all, but being PKed just means you lose a few gold pieces and come right back to life; your attacker wins experience points, but you don't really lose anything much.

And then there's the type of game where the universe is persistent, PvP is the ongoing play mode, and losers lose time and score subject to some limitations or none. When you lose resources, you really lose the time it takes to produce those resources, and you are left behind while others progress. This is the kind of game Bulfleet is, but this is also the most common design approach. And in fairness to Bulfleet, it already has a bunch of limitations that other similar games just don't have. I'm not sure I agree that many leave Bulfleet because of the way PvP works here.

First, look at all the inactive planets and notice that 90% of them have zero points. This mean the player just logged in once or maybe twice, but didn't even spend a thousand resources. They left for many reasons -- didn't like the game, thought it was too slow, couldn't figure it out, or whatever -- but not because they were attacked. I wish a lot players left at around 5,000 points! Then I could raid their inactive planets (I'm kind of a peaceful guy myself), but as it is, it's hard to find good inactive planets to raid.

Second, look at games that are both more popular and more "bloody" than Bulfleet. There are a couple of well know games out there where you produce wood, clay, iron, and food to build up a village and attack other villages. They have many servers, even in different countries, and none of them have the limitations Bulfleet has. In those games, you can be attacked without limit.

I think every game has to decide what audience it wants to attract. A game cannot be for everyone, but at least Bulfleet tries by having four different servers with slightly different rules. And some of us are at a disadvantage because we are not in Europe, so Europeans are active and playing while we sleep. But that really can't be helped. They would have to set up a server in the US. Still, you can even play Bulfleet by logging in just twice a day, as long as you're willing to risk losing twelve hours of production, but you have to be able to predict when you will return.

[TeRMiNaTe]

If you don't like the game just leave! Stop complaining! If you want something easier, go play solitaire!

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(TeRMiNaTe @ Jul , 09:27 PM)If you don't like the game just leave! Stop complaining! If you want something easier, go play solitaire!

As always, those of little intellectual attainment would rather have somebody shut up and go away, rather than rationally consider and answer the points they raise.

Some things never change.

In regard to this? Ummmm......did you REALLY think I would listen to you and do what you tell me? Really? Honest?

My immediate reaction when somebody tells me to shut up is to get right into their face and shout. I can't do that with you, so I will have to do the next best thing, which is ignore you until you say something at least mildly interesting. Ta!


Hardluck

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(Seyhall @ Jul , 09:24 PM)You are right -- there are different design approaches to PvP. In some games, you have to choose to play PvP; in other games, it's PvP only in certain areas. In some games, you disappear from the universe when you log off, so you can't be PKed while offline. And in some games, it's a free for all, but being PKed just means you lose a few gold pieces and come right back to life; your attacker wins experience points, but you don't really lose anything much.

And then there's the type of game where the universe is persistent, PvP is the ongoing play mode, and losers lose time and score subject to some limitations or none. When you lose resources, you really lose the time it takes to produce those resources, and you are left behind while others progress. This is the kind of game Bulfleet is, but this is also the most common design approach. And in fairness to Bulfleet, it already has a bunch of limitations that other similar games just don't have. I'm not sure I agree that many leave Bulfleet because of the way PvP works here.

First, look at all the inactive planets and notice that 90% of them have zero points. This mean the player just logged in once or maybe twice, but didn't even spend a thousand resources. They left for many reasons -- didn't like the game, thought it was too slow, couldn't figure it out, or whatever -- but not because they were attacked. I wish a lot players left at around 5,000 points! Then I could raid their inactive planets (I'm kind of a peaceful guy myself), but as it is, it's hard to find good inactive planets to raid.

Second, look at games that are both more popular and more "bloody" than Bulfleet. There are a couple of well know games out there where you produce wood, clay, iron, and food to build up a village and attack other villages. They have many servers, even in different countries, and none of them have the limitations Bulfleet has. In those games, you can be attacked without limit.

I think every game has to decide what audience it wants to attract. A game cannot be for everyone, but at least Bulfleet tries by having four different servers with slightly different rules. And some of us are at a disadvantage because we are not in Europe, so Europeans are active and playing while we sleep. But that really can't be helped. They would have to set up a server in the US. Still, you can even play Bulfleet by logging in just twice a day, as long as you're willing to risk losing twelve hours of production, but you have to be able to predict when you will return.

You don't believe that most of those players WHO ACTUALLY TRY TO PLAY leave because they get hammered and cant' defend themselves? Really?

I only have anecdotal evidence (evidence from those people I have talked to personally) but out of the 8 guys that started out with my alliance, all but 2 have quit playing....and those two are both saying that they are fed up and ready to quit. All got repeatedly hammered by stronger players, with the exception of one that never got over 100 points, and one that has played a previous version of Bulfleet, and had hoped that the changes in "Reloaded" would be enough to make it playable; both of those two have never gotten over 200 points.

I have a feeling that the experience is not local to just those that joined my alliance. I'd bet money on it, in fact.

Here's a thought; perhaps the developers could include a (voluntary) exit poll, when people quit the game. It could be sent to their email of record. I think that you'd find that most of the folks who quit playing do so because the interface is clunky, the game play is slow, and the game design does not include adequate help functions; those are the ones that quit with zero points. Of the rest, I would bet that the majority quit because they get tired of being pounded on by players that they can't defend against......and that MOST of them never even get to HEAR about a fleet save before they quit. They don't know it exists.

anyway....thanks for your reasoned and well-written response. A pleasure to read.

Hardluck

[TeRMiNaTe]

I don't like waisting my time with you, but you leave me no choice. Do you know how many suggestions by the players have not been accepted. I will tell you. Every suggestion from a player is automatically rejected. The changes are made by the administration only. And so far the game was with the same rules as today. Over 20 000 active players are playing the game. Do you think that, they would change the rules just because one player can't play with those? I think not. I said it before, I will say it again. If you don't like the game or the rules - LEAVE. Even Xepa wrote it somewhere in the forum, but i can't find it now.

[Cocko]

It's close to the real world, that's why it's hard. If you are strong, you can always beat your opponents using sheer force (You can take the US as an example) The fact that you have no free time- it's your problem, perhaps you have better things to do than playing bulfleet, and there is no problem with that, you can still produce heavy defense and stay moderately high in the statistics. All so- called "noobs" are too lazy to open the information about the ships and defenses, get a calculator and actually use their brains to figure out what's good for them. In any game, any serious RTS you cannot defend yourself with two towers, mine resources with three gathering machines, attack with two units and expect to win against the strongest opponents. I started playing this game when there was much less help in the forum, the interface was worse than now, there were at least two botchecks per hour, many things weren't quite there. I managed to raise an account to around 30000 on defense, figuring out what to do next using a simple calculator and my brain. It wasn't that hard for me, I think most of the things are pretty obvious. Someone said that this game is not for people with IQ under 50 and he was right.

[TeRMiNaTe]

Oh, I found it:

Знаете ли какво значи ТОТАЛИТАРИЗЪМ? Не? Скоро ще разберете.

1. Който не е доволен от администрацията- да си заминава.
2. Който не е доволен от играта- да си заминава.
3. Който не е доволен от правилата- да си заминава.
4. Който не е доволен от екипа- да си заминава.
5. Който занимава хората на този форум и администрацията със слухове и бълвоч- след игнор да си заминава.
6. Давам права на всички модератори и новинари да трият всичко което отговаря на определението спам, обиди, плюене и прочие.
7. Всичко което не е свързано в играта и проблеми по нея- да се трие.
8. Всички постове с провокативен текст- да се трият.
9. Всичките 9 точки не подлежат на дискутиране.

Ако искате да кажете на някой нещо моля обърнете се към [email protected] или [email protected].

I will translate some of them
1. Who is not satisfied with the administration - leave.
2. Who is not satisfied with the game - leave.
3. Who is not satisfied with the rules - leave.
4. Who is not satisfied with the team - leave.

I hope now, you will stop complaining once and for all.

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(TeRMiNaTe @ Jul , 09:36 PM)Oh, I found it:

I will translate some of them
1. Who is not satisfied with the administration - leave.
2. Who is not satisfied with the game - leave.
3. Who is not satisfied with the rules - leave.
4. Who is not satisfied with the team - leave.

I hope now, you will stop complaining once and for all.

Continue to hope. Hope is a wonderful thing :D

Hardluck

[Seyhall]

I don't want you to leave but I do wish you could like and appreciate the game better.

For me, this is the first competitive real-time simulation game kind that I can play well, and this is because it's better balanced than the other games I've played. You asked above if I liked fleetsaving. Well, it's not that I like fleetsaving itself; what I like is the coordination and planning required, plus the game of cat-and-mouse I'm playing with my attackers. There's three or four guys in the game who would love to catch me, but so far have not managed to!