Why I quit playing Bullfleet

[Seyhall]

I hear what you're saying, and I agree Bulfleet isn't a perfect game. But what game out there manages to satisfy both full-time gamers and casual twice-a-week gamers? What game has that perfect balance between offense and defense so that neither one feels the other has an advantage, yet both continue to be challenged?

Let me say that in my experience, Bulfleet is rather well balanced. Compare it to the very popular and sort of similar game of Travian. In Travian, you almost feel the developers ganged up with the elite players just to grief the noobies. In Travian, there is no limit to attacks. There is no attack range and there is no limit to the number of attacks. Worse, destructive attacks are pretty easy to launch in Travian, but in Bulfleet they require the Death Star, which nobody can build until they're way up there in rank.

Another thing too is that you cannot call back attacks in Travian. Once you press the button, you have 90 seconds to change your mind; after that, it's like launching a rocket. Yet in Bulfleet, you can take an attack back at the last minute, and most players will do that if you come online while an attack is incoming. Why? Because they figure there will be no resources to take by the time they get there. Since you're online, you can spend them, or if nothing else, reduce them to nothing by trading them in the trade center.

Also, Bulfleet limits you to 20 hours a day of play, and further, prohibits sharing passwords. In Travian, on the other hand, sharing an account is allowed. So players in three different time zones can work together on one account, and achieve 24-hour play. Not only do they get to attack more, they can tell when an attack is coming -- oh, because Travian doesn't email you warnings if an attack is coming. If you're not online, tough.

As far as evasive strategies, there are far fewer in Travian. The closest thing to "fleetsave" would be to make some quick trades on the market. Unfortunately, most market trades in Travian are 2:1, so you lose 50% of your resources, and worse, you can only exchange a maximum of 10,000 resources on the market at once. Considering the differences in costs, that would be maybe 100,000 resources in Bulfleet. But in Bulfleet, you can safeguard as many resources as you can carry.

Now, as far as English is concerned, yes, it would be very convenient for English speakers -- or more precisely, for non-Bulgarian speakers -- if the game were in English. Many European games (like Travian, but many more) actually have English-only policies. English is the official game language even if the game is in a non-English speaking country. Now, I realize that English is the world's lingua france, but still... it's kind of rude to expect people in other countries to speak our language. I actually applaud Bulfleet for sticking to its guns and keeping the game in their language.

And finally, I have found the players in Bulfleet -- most of whom speak English rather well, but even the ones who don't -- to be a lot friendlier than players I've interacted with in other games. In Travian, many are downright bullies, attacking you and then sending you mocking messages, adding insult to injury. Here, in Bulfleet, I'm friends even with the players who attack me (unsuccessfully!) all the time!

And, btw, I'm a first time player and hardly part of the elite. I don't oppose changes, but I also don't know what changes could be made. As far as money is concerned, I would think committed gamers are more likely to pay than casual ones, but I could be wrong.

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(Seyhall @ Jul 6 2007, 09:47 PM)I hear what you're saying, and I agree Bulfleet isn't a perfect game. But what game out there manages to satisfy both full-time gamers and casual twice-a-week gamers? What game has that perfect balance between offense and defense so that neither one feels the other has an advantage, yet both continue to be challenged?

Let me say that in my experience, Bulfleet is rather well balanced. Compare it to the very popular and sort of similar game of Travian. In Travian, you almost feel the developers ganged up with the elite players just to grief the noobies. In Travian, there is no limit to attacks. There is no attack range and there is no limit to the number of attacks. Worse, destructive attacks are pretty easy to launch in Travian, but in Bulfleet they require the Death Star, which nobody can build until they're way up there in rank.

Another thing too is that you cannot call back attacks in Travian. Once you press the button, you have 90 seconds to change your mind; after that, it's like launching a rocket. Yet in Bulfleet, you can take an attack back at the last minute, and most players will do that if you come online while an attack is incoming. Why? Because they figure there will be no resources to take by the time they get there. Since you're online, you can spend them, or if nothing else, reduce them to nothing by trading them in the trade center.

Also, Bulfleet limits you to 20 hours a day of play, and further, prohibits sharing passwords. In Travian, on the other hand, sharing an account is allowed. So players in three different time zones can work together on one account, and achieve 24-hour play. Not only do they get to attack more, they can tell when an attack is coming -- oh, because Travian doesn't email you warnings if an attack is coming. If you're not online, tough.

As far as evasive strategies, there are far fewer in Travian. The closest thing to "fleetsave" would be to make some quick trades on the market. Unfortunately, most market trades in Travian are 2:1, so you lose 50% of your resources, and worse, you can only exchange a maximum of 10,000 resources on the market at once. Considering the differences in costs, that would be maybe 100,000 resources in Bulfleet. But in Bulfleet, you can safeguard as many resources as you can carry.

Now, as far as English is concerned, yes, it would be very convenient for English speakers -- or more precisely, for non-Bulgarian speakers -- if the game were in English. Many European games (like Travian, but many more) actually have English-only policies. English is the official game language even if the game is in a non-English speaking country. Now, I realize that English is the world's lingua france, but still... it's kind of rude to expect people in other countries to speak our language. I actually applaud Bulfleet for sticking to its guns and keeping the game in their language.

And finally, I have found the players in Bulfleet -- most of whom speak English rather well, but even the ones who don't -- to be a lot friendlier than players I've interacted with in other games. In Travian, many are downright bullies, attacking you and then sending you mocking messages, adding insult to injury. Here, in Bulfleet, I'm friends even with the players who attack me (unsuccessfully!) all the time!

And, btw, I'm a first time player and hardly part of the elite. I don't oppose changes, but I also don't know what changes could be made. As far as money is concerned, I would think committed gamers are more likely to pay than casual ones, but I could be wrong.

I understand the argument you are making; its the same one that was used by Microsoft's folks in control of "Asheron's Call" when they nerfed all of their quests (a for-pay realtime MMPRPG sword-and-sorcery game similar to Everquest), in the process of catering to those players in the game that were into playerkilling (hunting each other). Within a couple years, Microsoft sold off the game to the original developers, who undid many of the changes in order to attract back all of the players the game had lost.

No online game can thrive and make money unless it can attract and KEEP new players. When the gameplay early is very slow (as in Bulfleet) this is even more so; when it includes getting attacked repeatedly when you can't defend yourself, it will drive of most first time players simply because of the perception that the game is rigged against them.

This game design does have that problem. So long as the current attack rules hold, that will continue. (I include in this the ability to buy "protection"; if I understand correctly, you can still attack other players while protected. What's up with that?)

I'm still going to try and play. I just happen to be a game freak, and very stubborn. But I've seen LOTS of games come and go, and I feel safe in saying that ANY game that consistantly alienates most of those that try to play it will eventually fade, if for no other reason than that somebody else will copy the good elements of gameplay and fix the problems in THEIR game, and the original won't be able to compete.

There's a reason there are so very many abandoned planets to raid. And its not a good sign for the profitability of the game.

Hey, what do I know...maybe these guys just do it for fun, eh? Maybe it isn't a business to them.

Hardluck

[Seyhall]

Oh, I'm sure it's a business to the company that owns Bulfleet. I'm sure they would rather make more money than less money, but what do you suggest? The risk of making changes is that it can drive the paying players away without necessarily converting the casual players into paying players.

You are right that there are many inactive planets, but notice that they almost always have 0 points. That means the players logged in, probably just once, and then never came back. They left for many reasons but probably not because they were attacked. After all, you are safe from attacks until you have 100 points. So would changing the game mechanics make them stay? Probably not.

I am interested in game development, so what are your ideas? I have given the issue some thought, and I have never found a way to make PvP satisfactory to both winner AND loser. If you make it too easy to attack and win, the defender complains. If you make it too easy to defend and win, the attacker complains.

In any case, I don't like PvP. I think there is too much aggression and hostility in the world already. Why bring that into a game? But on the other hand, how to make cooperation (the opposite of aggression) fun for people? That's difficult too.

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(Seyhall @ Jul 7 2007, 08:49 PM)Oh, I'm sure it's a business to the company that owns Bulfleet. I'm sure they would rather make more money than less money, but what do you suggest? The risk of making changes is that it can drive the paying players away without necessarily converting the casual players into paying players.

You are right that there are many inactive planets, but notice that they almost always have 0 points. That means the players logged in, probably just once, and then never came back. They left for many reasons but probably not because they were attacked. After all, you are safe from attacks until you have 100 points. So would changing the game mechanics make them stay? Probably not.

I am interested in game development, so what are your ideas? I have given the issue some thought, and I have never found a way to make PvP satisfactory to both winner AND loser. If you make it too easy to attack and win, the defender complains. If you make it too easy to defend and win, the attacker complains.

In any case, I don't like PvP. I think there is too much aggression and hostility in the world already. Why bring that into a game? But on the other hand, how to make cooperation (the opposite of aggression) fun for people? That's difficult too.

Well, here we go again.

I just got nailed again by overwhelming force by a player who is (after attacking me) 10,000 points higher than I am.

I can sure understand why Ender quit playing. I am getting hit over and over; perhaps being punished for having been bold enough to criticise some of our little ruling clique. Why should I bother to play if I am never allowed to have even a small chance of defending myself???

Today I had to take my girlfriend to the hospital; when I came back, every single ship at every one of my planets was gone. Dead. Destroyed. I had gotten spyprobed by several different individuals (there were 22 different spy probe missions incoming to my planet when I came home), most of them overwhelmingly more powerful than I am. I have a feeling that posting here is the reason I was targeted.

The one that hit my main planet had 65 battle cruisers. There is no possible fleet, or number of defensive turrets, or combination of the two that I could have had at my lvl (6700) that could have slowed him (lvl 1600 plus)down, let alone stopped him. My only option, therefor, is to either a) never have either ships or defenses, b) send them off on long trips when I have to leave (which means I can't run raiding missions unless I know for SURE I can be there when they COME BACK), or c) find another game.

The gameplay here is profoundly unbalanced.

Hardluck

I haven't quit yet, but I probably will soon if this continues, and let these useless little f**cks have their clique, and their game; SOMEBODY has to have made a space empire/battle game that's balanced enough that new players have a shot. I'll find it eventually.

Hardluck

[Seyhall]

Aw, I really hope you don't think you're targetted because you've posted here. Really. I doubt 10% of the players participate in the forums, and moreover, as I mentioned before, the players here aren't mean like that. And there's no ruling clique. Really. I'm a first time player, and I see no evidence of cliques. I've asked here and there, and haven't run into anyone who plays with a lot of friends. You sound pretty upset, and I don't know what to tell you because, well, because I don't find the game that unbalanced, but I know you do. What game have you played that had better balance?

As far as your options, well, yes, don't leave ships parked on your planets. And before you say you shouldn't have to keep your ships skippity-hopping all over the place, keep in mind that in many games you don't even have that option. You know almost always when you're going to log back in, don't you? Even if it's 8 hours later, you can still safeguard your ships. If you lower the speed to 10%, even a round trip between two planets in the same solar system takes 8 hours or more (depending on your speed research level).

And by the way, who are you raiding. Unless you're raiding only inactive planets, you're probably making them feel the same way you feel when you are attacked. Nobody logs in to find their resources gone and says, "Oh, that's okay because my attacker was my size and not too much bigger."

How many people in the game have you met and talked to? That makes a big difference, just between you and me. I have communicated with every person who has attacked or even spied on me. I start joking back and forth with them, and most of them stop attacking. And it's a game with those who continue attacking me because I usually manage to evade them, and we both have a laugh.

Also, there is only a loose correlation between game points and military development. This is because players can choose how to spend their resources. Some like to build their military very early in the game, and that's their choice, but many powerful militaries have fallen because they did not have a solid economy behind them. The player who spends all his resources on researches and mines first will probably be more powerful. That guy with the 65 battlecruisers spent almost 4 million resources on them, so 4,000 of his 16,000 points are just military. You can imagine that his resource production and research levels must be lower than someone who's 16,000 points are pure development.

So what I'm saying is don't be mad. Come on, it's a game. Learn the tricks and techniques, make some friends, and have some fun.

P.S. If you hit the Add Reply button at the bottom of the page instead of the Reply button at the end of the post, it won't include the previous person's whole post, which isn't necessary since it's an ongoing conversation.

[Hardluck]

QUOTE(Seyhall @ Jul 8 2007, 06:06 AM)Aw, I really hope you don't think you're targetted because you've posted here. Really. I doubt 10% of the players participate in the forums, and moreover, as I mentioned before, the players here aren't mean like that. And there's no ruling clique. Really. I'm a first time player, and I see no evidence of cliques. I've asked here and there, and haven't run into anyone who plays with a lot of friends. You sound pretty upset, and I don't know what to tell you because, well, because I don't find the game that unbalanced, but I know you do. What game have you played that had better balance?

As far as your options, well, yes, don't leave ships parked on your planets. And before you say you shouldn't have to keep your ships skippity-hopping all over the place, keep in mind that in many games you don't even have that option. You know almost always when you're going to log back in, don't you? Even if it's 8 hours later, you can still safeguard your ships. If you lower the speed to 10%, even a round trip between two planets in the same solar system takes 8 hours or more (depending on your speed research level).

And by the way, who are you raiding. Unless you're raiding only inactive planets, you're probably making them feel the same way you feel when you are attacked. Nobody logs in to find their resources gone and says, "Oh, that's okay because my attacker was my size and not too much bigger."

How many people in the game have you met and talked to? That makes a big difference, just between you and me. I have communicated with every person who has attacked or even spied on me. I start joking back and forth with them, and most of them stop attacking. And it's a game with those who continue attacking me because I usually manage to evade them, and we both have a laugh.

Also, there is only a loose correlation between game points and military development. This is because players can choose how to spend their resources. Some like to build their military very early in the game, and that's their choice, but many powerful militaries have fallen because they did not have a solid economy behind them. The player who spends all his resources on researches and mines first will probably be more powerful. That guy with the 65 battlecruisers spent almost 4 million resources on them, so 4,000 of his 16,000 points are just military. You can imagine that his resource production and research levels must be lower than someone who's 16,000 points are pure development.

So what I'm saying is don't be mad. Come on, it's a game. Learn the tricks and techniques, make some friends, and have some fun.

P.S. If you hit the Add Reply button at the bottom of the page instead of the Reply button at the end of the post, it won't include the previous person's whole post, which isn't necessary since it's an ongoing conversation.

Not mad anymore; I'm way long past mad and well into thoughtful :D That's my nature; when something pisses me off, my immediate reaction is to try to figure out why, why and how it happened, and what I can do to keep it from happening in the future.

Please see my thread on "Proposed rule changes" to see more on that last point :D

As far as being targeted goes? Probably was just a coincidence; perhaps it was something as simple as people using the rank statistics list to target players that are just barely withing attack range below them. Who knows. It felt very personal at the time.

In regard to talking to and meeting people? I am, and I have, however, its pretty hard to talk to people that attack me, though, when we don't have a language in common.

And no, I haven't attacked any active players. I haven't had a chance to. Every time I've gotten anything like a decent fleet built up, somebody has smashed it. I have started doing fleetesaves; they will protect my resources somewhat, but also greatly limit my gameplay. Such is life.


And no, I don't know when I am going to get to log in again and play; it could be in an hour, it could be two or three days from now. Not everyone lives on a regular schedule.

Hardluck